Learning from nature, delivering through chemistry. The end of cannabis prohibition has made cannabis research possible which has generated a wave of cannabis biotech start-ups. Caitlyn Krebs the co-founder and CEO of Nalu Bio joins Ross O'Brien and Maggie Kelly from Bonaventure Equity to talk about the challenges and opportunities of being at the intersection of biotech and cannabis. As an entrepreneur with many successful exits under her belt she also shares advice for aspiring entrepreneurs. Produced by PodConX Cannabis Capital - https://podconx.com/podcasts/cannabis-capital Ross O'Brien - https://podconx.com/guests/ross-obrien Maggie Kelly - https://podconx.com/guests/maggie-kelly Bonaventure Equity - https://www.bvequity.com/ Caitlyn Krebs - https://podconx.com/guests/caitlyn-krebs Nalu Bio - https://www.nalubio.com/
Learning from nature, delivering through chemistry.
The end of cannabis prohibition has made cannabis research possible which has generated a wave of cannabis biotech start-ups. Caitlyn Krebs the co-founder and CEO of Nalu Bio joins Ross O'Brien and Maggie Kelly from Bonaventure Equity to talk about the challenges and opportunities of being at the intersection of biotech and cannabis. As an entrepreneur with many successful exits under her belt she also shares advice for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Cannabis Capital - https://podconx.com/podcasts/cannabis-capital
Ross O'Brien - https://podconx.com/guests/ross-obrien
Maggie Kelly - https://podconx.com/guests/maggie-kelly
Bonaventure Equity - https://www.bvequity.com/
Caitlyn Krebs - https://podconx.com/guests/caitlyn-krebs
Nalu Bio - https://www.nalubio.com/
Ross O'Brien: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. And welcome to another episode of cannabis, capital the podcast. I'm your host, Ross O'Brien author of cannabis, capital the book venture capitalist. And I'm here with my colleague and cohost. Maggie Kelly. Hi, Maggie. How are you?
Maggie Kelly: Hi, Ross. I'm great today and I'm happy to be here. We have an outstanding interview today. This week's episode features a real trailblazer and the cannabis economy, Caitlin Krebs co-founder and CEO of . But before we get started, it's time for the cannabis economy challenge
Ross O'Brien: Okay, bring it on.
Maggie Kelly: for new listeners, our talent is based on our belief that cannabis is not an industry, but a global macro economy.
The impact of legalization is not creating one industry, but multiple dynamic industries and their own. Right. So Ross, this week's challenge is interesting. It's from an anonymous submission through the website listeners that's cannabis, capital podcasts.com. If [00:01:00] you want to submit your challenge and this admission just said gig economy. So Ross, what say you is the gig economy impacted by the cannabis economy?
Ross O'Brien: somebody was smoking their own stash when they sent that one in. so, so gig economy, as I understand it. Right. And, and making, I love this challenge right. In our belief that cannabis is an economy in modern industry and a gig economy. As I understand it is. Really about specific job tasks and those job tasks and how people staff them within, their different categories.
It also occurs to me that this is something that's probably quite prescient given that we are coming out of the pandemic situation and people are working remotely as all. We are on the conversation here today. And so when I think about people managing themselves, right, it's very, I think the gig economy is very entrepreneurial and that's the conversation that we're going to have today with Caitlin [00:02:00] that I'm really excited about.
But when I think about people in the gig economy, I think about them being self-managed right. And people being able to work on their own schedules and work on their own timelines and then being able to deliver results for the people that they're working with. That all goes to an HR issue for me. Right. Which is what are your policies when you're engaging people in the gig economy to support your different business objectives. And do you have a policy about. drug use, right. And that's something that we're seeing Amazon, you very out in the front row of right now is, will they continue to test for, and it looks like they won't contest test for cannabis consumption.
And so. When you're an employer and you're thinking about hiring people in the gig economy, those are things that you need to think about today because cannabis is available to everybody. And is it something that, should be, could be, or, or will be part of your policies when you engage in the gig?
Economy is as an employer.[00:03:00]
How'd I do.
Maggie Kelly: You did great, but it also makes me think about I can order pretty much anything I want and have it delivered to my home by a member of the gig economy, whether that's Uber eats or. Or if I forgot something at target, , I can have that, shipped will bring that to my home.
Ross O'Brien: And Maggie on that point. One of the things that we saw during the pandemic is that a number of states that were already. Legal for recreational use started to pass legislation for things like delivery. Cannabis became an essential service during the pandemic, and we've seen a lot of businesses that are starting up and supporting, , the home delivery.
And if you think about it, only a couple of years ago, it wasn't even fathomable to think about buying cannabis in a store, let alone have it delivered to your home. Pretty.
Maggie Kelly: a lot to unfold in the future. So we'll see how this goes. All right. So I would say Ross, that your record is intact.
Ross O'Brien: Still batting a thousand. All right. Bring on the cannabis economy [00:04:00] challenge. Try to stump me.
Maggie Kelly: All right, listeners. If you think you can stump Ross, please visit cannabis capital podcasts.com and submit your challenge as a favor to me, put Ross in his place. Really stumped them. He's in cordial enough as it is your challenge. Submission could make it on a future episode. Now, please stay tuned for an outstanding interview with Caitlin Krebs co-founder and CEO of Nalu.
Kaitlyn Krebs: Hi, I'm Katelyn. Krebs. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Nalo bio we're developing cannabinoids through chemistry. And my [00:05:00] blunt truth is the biotech investors are not ready to invest in cannabinoids yet. And I'm here to change.
Maggie Kelly: Katelyn.
Kaitlyn Krebs: Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Thanks Maggie. And.
Maggie Kelly: We're really happy to have you here with us today. Before we get to your blunt truth, could you please give us a little bit of background about yourself and about Nalu bio.
Kaitlyn Krebs: Sure. I come out of the biotech industry for the last 20 years. Nalo bio.
is my sixth startup. I've been in many different therapeutic areas. But what I love is the intersection of science and technology I've been in Alzheimer's, I've been in diabetes, I've been in cancer. And what excites me about CBD and cannabinoids is the therapeutic potential.
There's so much therapeutic potential for cannabinoids. I believe ultimately that [00:06:00] we can use cannabinoids to reduce use of pain medications. And in particularly. So at knowledge bio, we are developing cannabinoids through chemistry. So cannabinoids can be made or extracted from the hemp plant or the cannabis plant.
They can be bio synthesized, which means you can use organisms like e-coli or sugars to ferment cannabinoids, but we're taking an aspirin approach to cannabinoids and CBD. We're making cannabinoids and CBD. In the lab through a chemistry based plus.
Ross O'Brien: Thanks. Caitlin. It's really exciting times out there in the cannabis economy. When we see companies and founders like yourself that are bringing experience from a historically experienced from other sectors and other businesses that. Pioneered the scientific pathways. I'd love to dig into. If you could talk to our listeners about[00:07:00] what attracted you to this space and, and how did you make that shift to lean into cannabis as a foundation for your next biotech startup?
Kaitlyn Krebs: Sure. So, my co-founder Phyllis who I've known for 10 or more years. Called me up one day I was at a cancer genomics company and she said, Katelyn, do you know what CBD is? And I said, yes, Phyllis, I know what CBD is. I'm from the big island of Hawaii and very familiar with cannabis CBD. , it's not new to me growing up, it was around.
And So I started looking into. CBD and cannabis and the molecules and realize that cannabinoids, the broader category binds to a receptor on our body called the GPCR receptor. And that's one of the most druggable targets. And why realized that there's huge therapeutic potential. And so bringing my biotechnology and sort of life sciences background [00:08:00] into cannabis, I said, wow, we could develop drugs.
We could develop new chemical entities based on CBD and other cannabinoids. And that was really exciting because diabetes is a large market. One in three Alzheimer's is a big. There's 20 or 30 million people with Alzheimer's every year, but cannabis could touch any, everyone and CBD could touch everyone.
And one in four consumers are using it now today. So there's a huge opportunity to have a huge impact on health and wellness and particularly opioids.
Ross O'Brien: This is super exciting. And when you think about that, one of the things that we look at and try to understand is during the period of cannabis prohibition, there has either been prohibited or very little research or science that has been. Embarked on. So when you looked at the space and said, you know what, we need to start pioneering the science that you're doing in knowledge, like, how did you think about that?
How did you approach it? What were your concerns [00:09:00] and, and what, what have you found?
Kaitlyn Krebs: Sure. Well, it's really interesting. So, typically early science and technology comes out of academic labs and it's funded by the NIH national Institute of health. And so I started looking around for the data and publications and there weren't any, because. CBD and cannabinoids weren't legal until the farm bill in 2018.
So that baseline science and technology and innovation just wasn't there. And starting to talk to scientists, I realized it wasn't there because it wasn't legal, they couldn't get funded, they couldn't get any grants to fund that. And so one of the things that excited me is that with the federal legalization of CBD and the farm bill, that really changed the opportunity for science to look at cannabinoids. And most people don't know you have an endocannabinoid system and it was discovered in the eighties. And so you have all of these receptors in your body in which these cannabinoids, both internal endocannabinoids and [00:10:00] phytocannabinoids plant-based cannabinoids that they bind to. They're slowly building data and science to support the efficacy of that.
And so that's really our mission. We want to not only develop chemistry based cannibalize, but we want to do the cellular studies, the animal studies, ultimately the human clinical studies to prove the efficacy of it. Because right now people can refer to CBD as snake oil, does it work? It doesn't work.
There's a lot of. There's a lot of misinformation out there. And so here, here to build kind of the science data and credibility of.
Ross O'Brien: what would you say some of the biggest challenges are when I love that you mentioned , the snake oil concept? So anecdotally, one of the things that we struggle with in the market is there's. Thousands and thousands of small companies that are delivering product to consumers, and they're expected to have some level of efficacy. The. Broad majority of people that [00:11:00] have tried CBD, for example, to self-manage, whether it's, sleep or inflammation or pain have had good results, but they're all over the board. So what do you see being necessary in order to prove, to build that consistency and quality into the marketplace?
Kaitlyn Krebs: actually where we started. So my co-founder Randall, his father had Ms. And he started giving him some combination of CBD and THC and realized that the same brand, the same doses. Had a completely different effect. And we realized the inconsistencies of products out there on the market. And so, if you're synthesizing it or making it through chemistry, it's the same thing.
Every time it's pure, it's consistent. And it's reliable. What consumers don't know is they don't know how much. How much CBD should I take? How much TA sheets see, should I take? And what I think is really interesting is there's one drug that's approved by the FDA [00:12:00] called Epidiolex. It's a orphan drug for child epilepsy and those children, or young teenagers.
They take 1500 milligrams a day of CBD. And when you go to the store and you see a beverage with five milligrams of CBD in it, Your body is absorbing just a tiny fraction of that, and it's really not doing anything. And so the challenge for the industry is that we haven't figured out the dosing and we don't understand.
How to correctly dose for a particular indication. And so that's when you get the snake oil. Cause sometimes it works in some people, their endocannabinoid system is different and in other times there's absolutely no effect. So that's a challenge for us because people just, they don't know, they don't believe it.
They don't know if it works or not.
Maggie Kelly: Along those lines. Could you share with our listeners? Recent study that came out of Indiana university Bloomington in regards to equivalency.
Kaitlyn Krebs: [00:13:00] So, we just did a study with Indiana university. Thanks for mentioning that Maggie and, , we get the question, , Is CBD made in the lab, the same as CBD that comes out of a plant. And the molecule that we've made is exactly the same. And we did a study with Indiana university to prove that we get that question a lot , from community, from consumers, from customers, , how do I know this exact same molecule?
So we put it into two assays. These are cellular assets. CB one and GPR 55. Again, I mentioned you have an endocannabinoid system. So, our CBD binds to those and we showed that it's exactly the same and has the same response as CBD that comes from the hemp plant. So we're super excited. And 10 Mackie, our collaborator there has been studying the endo cannabinoid system for the last 30 years.
So if you want to know anything about your endocannabinoid system, you go to.
Maggie Kelly: Well, if we could [00:14:00] switch gears for a moment here, and I appreciate you sharing the results of that study. But in your introduction, you mentioned that this is your sixth startup. So, I would say six startup to me that says seasoned founder. So I would venture to say that you're relatively young and this is your sixth startup.
And, and I say this because I've worked with founders who, yeah, they might have six startups, they're 10 startup, but they tend to be older men. So in terms of, , the norm, this is outside of the norm. So can you share with some of our listeners because , We have listeners who are aspiring founders or they're in the middle of their first startup and they're in the trenches.
How did you get here? , how did you get to be on your sixth startup and what are the lessons that you've learned or that you can share with our live.
Kaitlyn Krebs: So I'm actually a biologist by training. So I love the science and I learned right out of college. I had no interest really in business or [00:15:00] building companies. And I started with an internet software company during the first tech boom. And I realized that I was an entrepreneur at heart.
We were pitching with a PowerPoint presentation to venture capitalists in Silicon valley. And I was like, wow, this is really fun. Like, I love telling stories. I love building products. I love solving problems. And that just launched a career. And after being in the internet and the bus, I realized that I miss science, I missed biology.
And so I found the biotech industry, which was a perfect combination of entrepreneurial-ism and science. And I've just moved from company to company. My husband always thinks I'm crazy because I'm all about the technology. I'm about the new next hot. I was trying to convince people that pre-diabetes was a thing 15 years ago.
And now pharma has ads about prediabetes. Well, no one thought it was a disease 15 years ago, or Alzheimer's, I'm trying to convince people. You can Kind of delay [00:16:00] Alzheimer's with diet nutrition. People thought I was crazy. So here I am doing CBD. I think people still think I'm crazy I look a bit different than your typical cannabis entrepreneur, Maggie you're absolutely right.
Literally and figuratively.
Ross O'Brien: so-so, one of the things I like about investing in the cannabis space is that the entrepreneurs look and feel differently from entrepreneurs that we've seen in other sectors historically. And Maggie was mentioning, , gender and age and all that. So. Look for us, we think great companies are built by great founders.
And there is no gender or age discrimination in that with the caveat. That experience does matter. So when you think about the successes and the experience that you have as an entrepreneur, , I received a comments on my book one time. Did I mention Maggie that I wrote a book? I wrote a book called cannabis [00:17:00] capital
Maggie Kelly: We can move right past that Caitlin. We can move right past that shameless plug.
Ross O'Brien: and I
Kaitlyn Krebs: have three copies, so don't worry.
Ross O'Brien: They're they're, they're, they're going on eBay for thousands of dollars now. So you're sitting on a fortune there. So, the, somebody actually sent me a comment , and I think they thought it was a negative comment or , some feedback , on Amazon or something like that.
And they said, this book isn't that specific to cannabis, it could be for any company in any sector. And I said, that's the point, right? So can you talk a little bit about your experience and first principles of entrepreneurship and what does, and doesn't translate to you building a pioneering company in this new cannabis economy.
Kaitlyn Krebs: all of the companies I've been at the first is are you solving a problem that people actually have? Because there are a lot of companies out there. Tech where they're not necessarily solving, a very important, hard problem. So I like one to solve hard problems [00:18:00] and, CBD and cannabis right now is a hard problem.
There's a lack of data. There's a stigma attached to it. And and there's a lack of funding really, even at the federal level and also in the venture community. So hard problem impactful. The second is really building a team that is passionate about that problem. So you need a team who really cares because it's hard, it's long there's ups and downs.
And so you need people who are really committed to the mission and the vision of the company. And the, and the next piece is, persistence, you need to, as an entrepreneur, it's a lot of persistence you need. And you need to believe when everyone else tells you that it's a bad idea or it's not going to work.
You ultimately need to believe that it will work and continue to push that vision for.
Maggie Kelly: you revealed in your blunt truth. We need biotech [00:19:00] investors to get ready to invest in cannabis, biotech. What do our investors need to get ready for? How can you prepare them?
Kaitlyn Krebs: Yeah. Blunt truth. Biotech investors are not there yet. They're not there yet. And CBD. They're not there. Our mission and NOLA bio is to develop a derivatives. So drugs based on CBD and others. And ultimately we want to take those through a typical drug development process as a typical biotech company. You need investors to fund that. But there still a stigma attached to it in their limited partner documents CBD.
And THC is still considered a vice. So, and we haven't seen these huge wins on BioTrack drug development. There's probably one company GW, pharma that's really been ultimately successful in this space. And so, I'm here to show that [00:20:00] CBD and cannabinoids they're viable drug candidates. It's a huge opportunity and I'm hoping then investors will change their mind and remove the stigma attached to, to cannabinoids.
Long-term.
Ross O'Brien: so, so Caitlyn is, is it. Estimation governance at the investment funds that are regulating them or, or is there a component of this, of, risk return because we're investors, we, and I think you're doing something extraordinarily. Meaningful special , and , is going to be massive. Every investor likes to make money at the end of the day.
So aside from the governance, right. Is there still any consternation about, market opportunity or risk.
Kaitlyn Krebs: Yeah. I think, governance is definitely one challenge. But market opportunity is the second, right? It's such a nascent. I consider it such a nascent, economy or industry that we just haven't seen. [00:21:00] Enough wins yet for investors to say, Hey, this really is an area that I want to invest in.
And they're also new. They need a lot of education. So a lot of my job is not only telling a story about chemistry based cannabinoids, but also just getting them up to speed on, on the industry, on the companies, on the comps. The fact that consumers are using this, it does work. So I think it's, it's also a lot of education for investors as well.
Maggie Kelly: How do you handle that when you're presenting to an investor group of investors, a panel to take such complicated concepts and drill it down to a 10 page presentation? What really goes into that because I think some advice in that space, in that realm would be helpful to our listeners because if you're pitching an idea and the audience doesn't get it, then it's really on you as the pitcher.
Your job is to [00:22:00] educate in a very succinct amount of time. So what advice could you give our listeners on how to take complicated concepts and drill it down for an audience to easily understand.
Kaitlyn Krebs: The question I believe in analogies. So I think people, things that, investors can relate to. So, aspirin is my favorite analogy for Nalo bio and that aspirin came from the Willow tree 150 years ago from the Willow bark basically. And it's a natural product. And in fact, the Egyptians used it And they realized it was an analgesic for pain.
And so. It used to come from the Willow bark tree. Now it's made by Bayer in the lab and it's the number one prescribed medicine in the world. And it's more cost-effective the purity is better. That's why you synthesize something in the lab or created through chemistry. And so I use that analogy to say most products that we consume today started [00:23:00] off as a natural ingredient or natural product.
And it's just a natural evolution to be made in the lab and synthesize. And so that's how I tried to convince folks, taking some very complex chemistry down to just a simple white pill.
Ross O'Brien: And Caitlyn, it's my understanding. And maybe you could expand on this, that the consistency of the chemistry or the, the, the compound. Is different when it occurs in a lab I E or consistent versus what it occurs in.
Kaitlyn Krebs: That's exactly right. So. In nature cannabinoids, and they're like 140 different cannabinoids in the plant. Let's say the hemp plant, for example, they exist in very low concentration. So you're trying to extract out a very small amount of in our case CBD or could be THC or other cannabinoids. So you're trying to extract that out and that's a very complex process you're trying to get rid of.
[00:24:00] 95% of the plant material to get to 5% of the CBD and, and that creates inconsistency. It creates variability from batch to batch plants also just are inherently they're natural, right? There's different soil. There's different land, there's different conditions in which these things are growing.
And so if you're doing it in the last. You're taking the same ingredients or combining them and you get the same result every time. And so it allows it to be much more consistent like aspirin, I'm sure there was a lot of variability when it was coming from the Willow bark. And now it's synthesized by there.
It's the same thing. You don't question whether your aspirin is going to work. You take it for your Advil.
Ross O'Brien: But doesn't that go back to what we were talking about earlier about snake oil versus quality, right? I haven't met, so, my mom had recommended CBD from her trainer, her personal trainer [00:25:00] and, and it's this one-to-one interaction of somebody who is saying, yes, Th this works, you should try this and some worked and some didn't, how are you solving?
For that. I think that's a really important point that I want to make sure we don't rush over is that, I don't think anybody is, is wondering about or debating whether or not cannabis can be applicable in a whole different variety of uses. Right. I mentioned earlier inflammation, pain management, treatment of managing a Parkinson's you, you, you talked about Ms.
Earlier. This is broad in broadened scope. And yet somehow we're on a one-to-one basis. Just interacting with people saying, yeah, try this, try that.
Kaitlyn Krebs: Yeah. I think the first, the first answer is, you really need a product that's considered. You get the same result every time. And that's our goal, that's the first order. And then the second is the data and science to support it. So yes, we believe it could be [00:26:00] useful in. Parkinson's and Ms and Alzheimer's, but there's very limited data to support that.
So organizations like ourselves, academic organizations, it's going to take a body of evidence to convince consumers and users of that. And then I think it's going to take time to like anything. I think it's going to take time for people to get comfortable with the use of these ingredients.
Maggie Kelly: What role do you think the FDA will play in regards to regulation? And have you found that they are receptive or are there hints that the FDA will be receptive to? I don't want to say friendly regulation. That's not really the right term, but smart regulation.
Kaitlyn Krebs: Yeah. So, I think the FDA really doesn't know what to do because this, this ingredient CBD, or this molecule has been out there for years. It's a $5 billion market. [00:27:00] People are putting it in supplements and skin cream and beverages. And so the FDA, but yet there is an FDA approved drug.
That's just CBD. And so that the challenge is it's been approved as a drug, but people are using it. I'll call it over the counter and it's a conundrum. And right now, we're at a, almost like a stalemate with the FDA because they know their job is, safety and efficacy first to keep people from harming themselves.
And second to provide. Therapeutics that help to, to treat disease. And so, I believe that the FDA is going to have to come out there. They're not going to be able to stop the use of CBD. It's just, it's too far past that. But what they are going to do is they're going to want consistency, quality and efficacy.
And so that's really our goal, consistent CBD. Quality CBD. [00:28:00] So you don't have pesticides, heavy metals that you would implant based CBD and efficacy and data to show that it works. It's a dialogue with the FDA right now, but ultimately I believe they'll put some guidelines around it. But I think just straight CBD ultimately will be allowed by the.
Ross O'Brien: I just want to double click on. Maggie your, your question and this conversation around regulation, it's our view and, agreeing to disagree. It's, it's our view that we're not looking for a pathway for no regulation. In fact, I think we would prefer to see smart regulation and more regulation.
in order to, create a marketplace where consumers are getting the, the outcomes that they're looking for.
Kaitlyn Krebs: Yeah, I would, I would agree with that. We, we don't, it's the wild west right now, right? There's not a lot of regulations, So people can do anything. They can make any claim they want. And the FDA's, [00:29:00] unless you're making agregious claims is not really coming after companies or manufacturers, but I would agree, regulation around consistency and quality.
Is absolutely needed, like any other supplement, there's basically the FDA comes out with terms that you have to stick to. And if you stick to those, you're allowed to sell it and use it. You just have to be very careful again about the claims that you make. You can't claim that you're curing cancer curing Alzheimer's unless you absolutely have the data to show that, improve that.
So I agree. And I'm hoping that. We can help to be part of that dialogue and conversation around putting the right guardrails around CBD so that people are safe and they understand the use cases.
Maggie Kelly: So if you could, Caitlyn we wind down every interview by asking our founders. What's advice that you could share or the one piece of advice that you wish someone had shared with you or [00:30:00] your hardest lesson that you've learned as a founder. So if you could share that with our listeners, for any aspiring entrepreneurs out there.
Kaitlyn Krebs: the hardest lesson I've learned so far in building knowledge bio is, even if you think your approach is better and novel it's like, , we're trying to roll a Boulder uphill right now. There's a lot of people that believe CBD, from, or any cannabinoid from hemp and the plant is the way to go.
It's been romanticize, it's natural, it's organic. But the challenge is what comes with that is a lot of inconsistency. And so, sometimes when I'm talking about knowledge and the incredible chemistry that we're doing, people look at me like I'm crazy because it comes from a plan. I, I ultimately believe that's the way cannabinoids will be manufactured, but I think that's been the biggest challenge today.
Ross O'Brien: Well, Caitlin, we also like to wrap up with any recommendations, like, do you have any books that you would recommend for the aspiring entrepreneurs out
Maggie Kelly: I [00:31:00] knew that was coming. You could feel it
Kaitlyn Krebs: The cannabis economy, Ross,
Ross O'Brien: It's so important. We can't say it enough on this
Kaitlyn Krebs: in the cannabis economy.
Maggie Kelly: cannabis.
Ross O'Brien: thank you. This has been incredible. I think we've given a lot for the listeners , to think about as we discover in all these conversations and in particular, in all the interactions we've had with you like that, there are no simple answers, but there are. And the solutions can be complicated.
They can be scientific and they require a lot of discipline and successful entrepreneurship to bring them to light. So thank you for doing everything that you're doing. And thank you for joining us today. I think this has been really exciting.
Kaitlyn Krebs: Thank you. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.