Cannabis beverages, A new category of high Imagine a cup of coffee without the jitters, an edible without the sugar or a joint without the smoke TJ Stouder believes that the future of cannabis will be in beverages. As the Founder of HoliSTIK Wellness and Myhi he joins Ross O'Brien and Maggie Kelly to explain why the opportunities for cannabis beverages are so great. He also advises aspiring cannabis entrepreneurs to adhere to business basics and not fall victim to the "green-rush" hype. Produced by PodConX Cannabis Capital - https://podconx.com/podcasts/cannabis-capital Ross O'Brien - https://podconx.com/guests/ross-obrien Maggie Kelly - https://podconx.com/guests/maggie-kelly Bonaventure Equity - https://www.bvequity.com/ TJ Stouder - https://podconx.com/guests/tj-stouder HoliSTIK Wellness - http://www.holistikwellness.com MyHi - www.getmyhi.com
Cannabis beverages, A new category of high
Imagine a cup of coffee without the jitters, an edible without the sugar or a joint without the smoke TJ Stouder believes that the future of cannabis will be in beverages. As the Founder of HoliSTIK Wellness and Myhi he joins Ross O'Brien and Maggie Kelly to explain why the opportunities for cannabis beverages are so great. He also advises aspiring cannabis entrepreneurs to adhere to business basics and not fall victim to the "green-rush" hype.
Produced by PodConX
Cannabis Capital - https://podconx.com/podcasts/cannabis-capital
Ross O'Brien - https://podconx.com/guests/ross-obrien
Maggie Kelly - https://podconx.com/guests/maggie-kelly
Bonaventure Equity - https://www.bvequity.com/
TJ Stouder - https://podconx.com/guests/tj-stouder
HoliSTIK Wellness - http://www.holistikwellness.com
MyHi - www.getmyhi.com
TJ Stouder: [00:00:00] Hello, I'm TJ Studer co-founder and CEO of holistic wellness and my high and my blunt truth about the cannabis economy is that I believe within the next two years, that beverages will make up close to 40% of the cannabis market.
Maggie Kelly: Well, hi TJ and welcome to cannabis capital. We're really happy to have you here with us today. Before we get started and dig into the conversation. Can you give us a little background about yourself and about your company?
TJ Stouder: Sure. Hi Maggie. Hi Ross. Thanks so much for having me super excited to be on the show. I'm TJ Studer, I'm co-founder and CEO of holistic wellness and my high, our parent company, holistic wellness really starts with a personal journey of my own. I'm a long time consumer packaged goods guy, believe in the power of a brand and more over the power of a consumer brand relationship.
I worked for P and G for over 10 years on a myriad of brands in that mission and left looking for something closer to home and a product that I really felt passionate about [00:01:00] what it was doing for consumers' lives. I had no idea that would be cannabis. Despite being a long-term consumer, it was not the green rush for me.
It was firsthand seeing loved ones that are dealing with everyday ailments. And the potentials ahead in this plant that got me excited about marrying those two visions, two. One, the brand emission of getting them over that first obstacle of trial to product quality that actually delivers against that user experience.
And then three, really the retail tainment around these products on how they can fit into your lives. So first we created a brand called holistic wellness, which was intended for those loved ones to open their eyes to the magic of this plant. And really, I like to call it cannabis one oh one.
Cleanly grown cleanly sourced hemp and, and really very low levels of THC below the hemp definition and focused on that CBD wellness mission. Additionally, we made it super simple for that consumer to understand it upfront. Then really moving [00:02:00] forward on the insight. Our unique product at the center is a water-soluble powder and a stir stick that makes it easy and convenient to infuse anything you're drinking anywhere on the CBD side that delivers the convenience of always having a serving nearby that you can infuse into your drink when you need it most.
Secondly, I think the side of having something tasty that you can put into anything makes it easy for the consumers day. And as I said, we came up with a second brand, which really goes to the other end of the spectrum of the plant at the center of that stick, being fun to use. THC. And the other side of the spectrum we created a second brand called , which really the intent of that is socializing, energizing and bringing cannabis into a lot of areas that previously have been left behind from the beach to the ballpark, to the plane, to the concert.
We see cannabis left behind because of the inconvenience of consumers. And my highs intent is to [00:03:00] deliver that experience and the flexibility of the product to get into those moments of a consumer lifestyle. So two separate brands with two slightly separate missions, however, with a goal of consumer wellness convenience and delivering the plant in a new form factor that really delights the consumer
Ross O'Brien: So TJ, thank you. , and look, we've both been around a little bit now, all things being equal in the cannabis economy, sort of developing in dog years, right? We have a little bit of seniority. I think you said something that I want to pick up on, which was you did not get caught up in the green rush.
And one of the reasons why we're doing this podcast is to let people. Come in to these conversations and take a deeper dive. These are some of the discussions that we've had before and we're going to continue to have, and we think they're really important because the green rush for us. All that did was resulted in a bunch of business failures.
And so we're now looking at moving past that and really peeling back the onion. Can you talk to us a little bit about the journey of holistic [00:04:00] wellness as a parent company and the brands? And I know there's been relationships that have been established. We've had them, they're not there anymore. Some of the attrition is happening.
Just talk to us about your journey and the journey of the company. Now that we're in. Stabilizing the cannabis economy to really focus on, the day-to-day business operation.
TJ Stouder: Awesome. Great question. And really Ross, where we met with, through the book and cannabis economy and love the way you talk about thinking bigger about. Not just selling weed in dispensary's, which sadly we see too often with a product that's so wide and so important to so many consumers lives that we need to think a lot bigger about how this impacts the consumer life point to really telling a bit of that story.
My first reaction, when I left P and G and saw cannabis as a potential career path was I don't believe. This has been around for 10, 15, 20 years. And this is OJI as we call it, it's already done people know cannabis. There's plenty of products, consumers [00:05:00] understand it, et cetera. I walked in and I found at the crux of that was a consumer with too many questions to make a choice at the point of sale.
And that's really from CBD to THC that we see. Lots of products yet rarely does one offer a very clear value prop that makes me ready to take out my wallet. Now, at the end of the day, we're excited that it's legal and you can buy it. So I think you see consumers buying product after product, trying to find their right lifestyle.
But no answers necessarily readily available. So where I came with, the goal of creating holistic was a bit selfish that my mom needed answers to her questions firsthand. Is this plant going to get me high? Can I carry it on a plane? How do I afford the right dose per day? Whatever it might be. That you need to answer it.
The first moment of truth in a retail shop. It's not, you get to sit down with your mom and have dinner every night and explain to her the myriad of ways that this can help her life. It's, I'm walking through the store to [00:06:00] get my eggs, my milk, and whatever else I might need for the trip. How do you communicate to that consumer?
And I really think that's the growth going forward. I'll put it in another way. I think the green rush is defined two ways. For me, there's two types of people I see often in cannabis and it's either the organic, I love the plant and I've seen it firsthand, what it can do for consumers.
That have very strong intentions on what they're going to create. However, consumer products are not easy from the regulations to the supply chain, to dealing with retailers that it takes a certain resume and understanding of that to really build the right foundation, to create all the fun stuff on top and actually sell to consumers.
So you often see a lot of stumbles there and, oh my God, I didn't know. We need a three PL to deliver our product to a retailer with a vendor. The other side, which really, frankly, to my personal story is the more frustrating side. This is a huge growth opportunity. Possibly the biggest one we've seen in our lifetimes as a category, that's drawing a lot of [00:07:00] money and often even me being a PNG IR, I often walk in and people see my resume as a negative to this cat.
And it's, I believe in the plant more than anything, I hope that my skillset can help to evolve this category and make it a better consumer platform. But there's a fear that wall street is taking over and it's been bringing in money and making it corporate is not the right answer for this plant either.
So I think that's the green rush to me that I backed into this being an opportunity versus, oh boy, I get to work on.
Maggie Kelly: So. You were clearly what we would define as a stark founder, but also a subject matter expert. And you've mentioned P and G and P and G or for the benefit of our listener. Will you tell them what P and G means and why that's so meaningful and why, you know what you're talking about right now?
TJ Stouder: sure. Good question. Sorry. First thing P and G means is you use too many acronyms. There's literally an acronym D dictionary on your [00:08:00] homepage, so you can look all these up. So, sorry. P and G is Proctor and gamble and a huge amount of respect for the over decade. I spent there really building over $23 billion brands that you know, and love and use in your daily routine.
I like to use the example of my full experience there of understanding branding in 2020, when we never left the house, mom still washed her clothes with. You could have saved two to $3 on detergent. It would have been a smart decision. Technically, nobody's going to see it that much. Does it matter? But it's part of who you are.
It's not part of how you wash your clothes and it's where brands are built to the consumer as king really delivering versus their needs and being part of their family versus. Pretty colors on shelf. I like to say the boobs and buds of cannabis that you see ways of selling product that aren't necessarily enriching the consumer's life.
So really a huge experience there across a list of brands, but learning a lot of how to bring CPG products.
Ross O'Brien: So TJ, I want to ask then about this [00:09:00] experience, you mentioned earlier coming with a a career in Proctor and gamble, you said this was viewed as a negative. A lot of the times when you were starting to launch you holistic talk to us about that.
TJ Stouder: Not holistic, I'd say more on the, my high side and really be let's call it the cannabis industry as, as it is today. And again, I say this towing, the line between I'm a longterm cannabis consumer and supporter of the many, many who have dealt with a lot of challenges to bring us to where we are today versus where it's going to evolve over the next years and how we get there.
And I think there's this basement mentality that we've hidden cannabis for so long. That we don't want to let newcomers in. And it's, this is what we do. This is how we do it. There's code words to this, that, and the other thing that if you don't know those code words, you're not welcome into our club. And I think that let's say the first time I went to a cannabis conference in a nice sports jacket.
I was looked down upon a bit because, oh, there's another one of those guys that's [00:10:00] coming from this world trying to take over ours.
Ross O'Brien: Let me tell you a story of a counterbalance for that. Cause I, I really want to dig into this. This is an important conversation. So we held an event in Palm beach at a fancy fancy hotel. One of the former president of Mexico presenting Fox as an advisor to us. And we were working with one of the media companies that shall remain unnamed because they're a complete disaster.
They're one of their employees showed up at a private dinner with the former president of Mexico in shorts and flip flops. And he was higher than a witch doctor. , and I literally thought in that moment, you know what, like you can go have business meetings with Seagrams and people that run, like they don't show up hammered all the time.
I really want us to talk about this counterbalance because when I hear you say, and so we talk a lot about advocacy, acumen versus business. And when I hear you say that people were reluctant to embrace what you were doing from a business standpoint, because you wore a jacket. And you said earlier about, institutionalizing [00:11:00] companies from a wall street, vantage point.
What I hear is it is those companies that are reluctant to embrace that just want to fail and they are failing.
TJ Stouder: Very well said, and I think I would first use your story. As an example of, I had this challenge in my early days of are people allowed to come, I assume, at your cannabis events, we make a infused stir stick that you can infuse anything you're drinking easily and productive. I do not see zero to 60 as the equation of being high.
I think there is a usage of cannabinoids throughout your day, where you can be super productive and I put the emphasis on super and I'll leave a footnote of why Olympians aren't playing anymore. There is a way to be high in a delightfully productive way that I will never say don't consume cannabis at night.
Just like no employer says, do you drink so much that you're hung over? When you come into work? It's a matter of, can you do your job and can you do it effectively? Now, one thing I've learned randomly Latin America dresses better than us always. So when you show up to a [00:12:00] Mexican president event, you better have a suit on, always know that rule.
Ross O'Brien: Well, I'll tell you what TJ everybody else did. So talk to us about business acumen though, because that's one of the things that always impressed me so much in, and getting to know you early on is, really bringing a business plan and bringing a thoughtful approach to execution.
And why do you think there is so much of a reluctance to embrace that? I mean, we came away from one of the conferences and the whole, I mean, we just talked in the office about like what occurred to us was. Just because you love cannabis doesn't mean you get a free pass and business. You talked about education earlier.
Love it. So we stepped back and said, we wanted to educate ourselves before we wrote a single check. It was almost a two year process before we, before we got there. And in that one to, to understand what the lay of the land is. So talk to us about, it shouldn't, it, it seems to me. When I look at what we've done in healthcare and medical devices and all these other sectors that there's just a baseline of business acumen that's required in order to have a successful [00:13:00] business. Yet that seems to be riled against as if it's heresy.
TJ Stouder: I love it and love the way you put it. I think the interesting part to me is supply and demand is broken right now on both sides of the equation and starting with CBD 96%. And it might be 94% now of CBD sales are happening in non traditional. All of those consumers go to traditional retailers
Ross O'Brien: But they're just not buying it there.
TJ Stouder: They don't have it there because of the FDA regulations. So it's a matter of now we have CVS and Walgreens carrying topical CBD, topical CBD has not been seen at least the loyalty, the efficacy to consumers to create the loyalty of their purchases. So they're heading to down the street head shop to find their CBD.
So as we look at those retailers, they appreciate the business acumen, . It's a commodity at the end of the day. And it's another consumer packaged goods that they're preparing for when FDA regulations come shelving this just like they do any other [00:14:00] category. And I think the reason I started with supply and demand are so outdated is people are dying to buy this stuff.
It's very easy to sell a CBD or THC product today. Just put a pot leaf on it and someone will try it at pretty much any. Which is scary for me as a person who believes in the plant who believes in trial, who believes in the first time you try a good product. You're a lifer, every one of those bad experiences, bad for all of us.
So I think on the CBD side, the FDA coming with regulations that will standardize where these products are sold, will help very quickly standardize some of the forums. Of retail or simply that the price will make sense. The product set will make sense. You won't be choosing between 15 to 20 tinctures on which mint flavor you like.
You'll be choosing on one tincture that works best because the retailer believes in that tincture on the THC side of the bridge, I think it's even worse. Illegal drugs five years ago or less in most states. [00:15:00] And all of a sudden you've opened up retail. So you see thousands upon thousands of flower brands, which imagine going to whole foods and picking between a thousand ears of corn.
It's what am I doing? I want corn and I want it to be delicious and as fresh as possible that I think we have so much demand right now. That supply is always chasing demand. The reality and what we're preaching, especially on the THC side is the total attainable market. Doesn't come into this dispensary today.
They're out there. They believe this is either too much for them that they're afraid to be high. They don't understand the products. They don't understand the language. They don't know how to have a successful experience. So how do we grow that demand? To rightsize. And then we'll start seeing again, as you said, bound to fail because that consumer is smart and they care a lot about their wallet.
They're not going to give away free money forever. Like we're living in today.
Maggie Kelly: You agree, and that regulation some common sense regulation can't [00:16:00] come soon enough. I'm in Western North Carolina and I have to say Delta eight gas station. THC CBD. What? I mean, it's none of it's legit, but the sooner we can steer clear of that, I think the better for the economy as a whole, because there's a lot of misconceptions that people are seeing it at the checkout at a gas station and making assumptions based just on that marketing at that one spot.
it clouds judgment moving forward.
TJ Stouder: Definitely Ross. You asked the question earlier on the journey towards creating holistic and really we set a mission statement upfront, which was based on my mom. So, it's pretty it's close to home of delivering a clean product trackable from seed to sale and everything we do thinking of her best interests.
That was not an easy thing. Down to finding a lab that gives you a correct and consistent answer that you know exactly what you're getting. Every time is accurate down to labs that said, what do you want it to say? And the [00:17:00] scary end of the other one, everybody doesn't have that mission of, I want my mom to have a healthy.
I want to sell product and I want to get it on shelf as quickly as possible. I can make you a tincture by the end of the day and have a COA on it. That's a scary proposition. So it's the faster we step up with those regulations, the safer for consumers and everyone trying.
Maggie Kelly: So I liked that you, you brought, you mentioned that because transparency and education are clearly key pillars in the businesses that you are running. So if you go to holistics website, there's CBD 1 0 1, you are clear about your supply chain. Maybe just as advice for aspiring entrepreneurs, people who are considering getting into this space not necessarily the stigmas that they'll have to overcome, but why transparency and education might just need to be a part of their overall business.
TJ Stouder: Definitely. I think if you want long-term success, it's a must and honestly, It's my best truth gauge. And it's I set the mission [00:18:00] for my team and everyone who's touching this business. We want this to be true in everything we do, and it's giving that much information. And I'm glad you mentioned kind of some of our education materials now for our next production run.
We're going to film every stick from our hemp plant in Buffalo to the final powder, going into the stick, because if you don't have anything to hide, the consumer feels a lot better about what the questions are. And then on. If we do have something that we want you to ask, I'd rather you see it. There's consumers out there that are cracking the nut on how to make better water soluble powder.
Give me a call, shoot me an email. Say, Hey, I've learned something better. And the more you give that consumer, the better relationship you're going to have. Always, if you're cutting corners, sell fast now, because consumers are going to figure you out. They're going to move to another brand who gives them a better promise, just like a relationship, just like in a job, just like anything else you got.
Consumer packaged goods are, think a weekly drum beat of purchase. And they're deciding [00:19:00] every time if they want to come back to you.
Ross O'Brien: Let's talk about in that context, what you just said, Maggie, for regulations and smart regulations. I don't want to move on past this for a moment because I think what we are all saying is that in order for this economy and the verticals within this economy to be long-term successful to use your terms, TJ, which I think are critical.
We actually need more regulation, not less regulation. And, and how do we strike that balance with, and you said earlier, and I completely agree if it were not for the people that showed up to put on their ballots in their communities that we need to start legalizing this plant. We wouldn't be here, but the times I've had conversations with advocacy advocates.
Who in their mind, the goal is actually zero regulation. That to me, can't it can't exist in a functional culture. It doesn't anywhere else. So why would we expect it to do so here?
TJ Stouder: And I think all of us as cannabis consumers have been in a weird place and bought a [00:20:00] product from a weird human that we did not want to purchase from. That's not this. And, and frankly, it's the, the elderly consumers that are just dying to find out more that I look at them like, what is their path to try the best product?
And it's at the end of the day, that consumer she's much more important to me than my feelings on my business. If I'm not delivering towards that mission, what's the point. And it's for me, the, the two categories of people, I said the. True people who believe in the plant and believe in the power that goes forward.
I want to do my best part to move it forward, whether that's my business, because hopefully we've delivered the value prop that we're supposed to, to the consumer or. Otherwise, you don't care about this plant , you're overlooking the power that it has for consumers' lives. And you're looking for a profit, which there's room for, but again, questions of, is it the right thing going forward?
So I think regulation is a must in this world. Regulation is a must to getting it to consumers. [00:21:00] And the regulations are going to be there either way. I'd rather them right-size to the plant. That is, and it is that a plant that we have the same regulations as that corn. I said down the street, down the aisle, that we bring a safe quality clean product and let a consumer use it wisely into their life.
And that's before we get to the many things that are completely legal to be sold on shelf, that you can destroy your life with.
Maggie Kelly: Fair point. So, TJ, what do you make of I'm sure this I'm sure there's an updated estimate out, but CBD beverage, mark. 2.8 billion by 20, 25, 4 years away. You think that's seems about right to you.
TJ Stouder: I think all forecasts are under. If we properly deliver from regulation to consumer experience, I think as you look at the numbers of what we've done with some of our top customers, a Wegmans being the biggest on the east coast substantial numbers and substantial traction from their consumer across the [00:22:00] board and really incrementality versus their sales on top of the loyalty we're seeing when we drive that first trial.
Is the hope. And I think what we've seen from CVD today is a lot of trial and willing to buy a lot of different products. But few with that have cracked the nut that say I'm a loyalist for life. I want more, I wanted more places as you would with consumables THC side on the beverage forecast. I think again, and how I think of cannabis economy is that we've cracked four walls of a dispensary.
We have not cracked the rest of the. And it's everything else you do could be done with some sort of cannabinoids better and more enjoyable. And it's, we don't think about a lot of areas because again, that basement mentality, I hear a lot of very heavy cannabis consumers that say I only consume cannabis before bed.
That blows my mind every time. I'm like, you love that. That's [00:23:00] all you understand cannabis to be as a sleep aid. That nutshell mentality that they're not thinking of it as the best way to enjoy a Saturday night. The only way to energize before a workout, my best recovery tool the best way to share a beverage with my dad.
Who's a time drinker and he's trying to get off whatever it might be. The multitude of ways that cannabis can be consumed. We haven't tapped. So I think those forecasts are right on the current run rate. And if we keep selling the same product to the same consumer, hoping that it'll keep growing at these rates, if continued great businesses that are driving change in that cannabis economy, I think there's much upside to those numbers.
Ross O'Brien: So TJ, what's it going to take then? Ice for aspiring entrepreneurs out there, because one of the things that you talked about was the different applications, right? Whether it's inflammation, sleep, energy recovery, and one of the challenges that we see and I'd like to hear your perspectives.
And then if you have some advice, because you've honed in [00:24:00] on. So a very specific approach with my high and, and with holistic. One of the problems that, that we tend to see is these aspiring entrepreneurs will certainly, early on tourists, they want to solve everything, right? So we get business plans all the time.
Hey, we're going to go treat PTSD. We're going to treat Parkinson's. We're going to treat Alzheimer's. We're going to treat. Pain meds, we're going to solve the opioid crisis and it's, and it's nothing but a PowerPoint presentation. So how did you find the discipline and what advice do you have out there and how do you strike that balance of there's a lot of shiny new opportunities out there, but sticking to your knitting.
TJ Stouder: Most important guidance we have as a team is stay in your lane and where you're out of your lane, either find the right strategic partner to fill that gap,
Ross O'Brien: TJ, say that again for all of our listeners out there, the most important guidance is.
TJ Stouder: stay in your lane.
Ross O'Brien: Thank you.
TJ Stouder: Excellent. Always, and, and of course we're always growing. We're always learning, but never be afraid to say. And you're not going to reinvent a [00:25:00] wheel tomorrow. That's going to be better than somebody that's been working on it for 50 years, with 10 degrees and a team that's figured out a right answer.
So don't be afraid to know your core competency and stay in your lane. Second point of that advice and really my learning throughout. Find a value prop that, stand strong no matter who comes to the table and looking at all the competition, looking at all the forecasted competition, what do you specifically bring to the table?
And I'll give you an example of a few friends I've had coming from PR or coming from fitness or coming from whatever it might be that say, I want to get into cannabis. What can I do? And they're working on a gummy bear. Not that. Do you know how to make a gummy bear? Do you know how to sell a gummy bear?
Why, why is that your first choice? And I think back to that cannabis economy, there will be hospitality. There will be cannabis fitness. There will be cannabis travel. As you see a lot of these businesses developing think around the plant and how you can [00:26:00] deliver additional services that add value to the consumer.
But most importantly, if you don't have an answer that a consumer can understand from moment one, why you add value versus anyone else keep working on that step? Because you're going to do a lot of work to try to solve back to a very simple equation of when people see this, does it, do they get excited?
Do they say, wow, my life was not as good before I found this product. Because as you get into products, you need that answer to be a pretty resounding yes. Or it's going to be a really tough road as we get more and more competitive.
Ross O'Brien: So we talk a lot about, we have the cannabis economy challenge. Our open challenge on the podcast here is I I've, you can go on our website and if you think there is an industry or a sector that otherwise isn't being impacted by cannabis, let us know. We have yet to find one. We talk a lot about it's our belief that cannabis has reached the boardrooms of every company in every industry period.
We don't see that as negotiable and the challenge is still standing. So [00:27:00] if we believe in this being part of our communities going forward for the long-term access to cannabis and all the different areas that impacts right. , when you talk about. For example, hospitality and tourism, right?
So now you start to need to think about what are the different applications, what are the different, and you talk about winning people's wallet, share you talk and picking up on what you said on, we want customers to be happy. We've got to have great outcomes. We've got to what's the wallet share that you're addressing.
And how do you go when that.
TJ Stouder: Awesome question. I'm gonna use Las Vegas as my example, and I'm going to caveat this with, I love alcohol and I'm a drinker. However, I think we've put it too much into our society. Very carefully. Say that for my alcohol friends who someday we will work together one way or another. I think looking at Las Vegas and knowing I used to go there in my, in my day for bachelor parties and whatnot, they give you free alcohol to keep the.
The Vegas economy is driven by the table enough so that they [00:28:00] hand you free alcohol to keep you consuming it at the table. They legalized cannabis. And my first experience in Vegas was you get taken by a shuttle well off the strip to a dispensary, you buy as much as you can, and then you're not legally allowed back into the.
Yes check. Cause I actually had my bag confiscated telling them there was cannabis inside that was legally purchased and it was there for a cannabis conference. They kept my bag for three hours and searched every item. Cause I'm a cannabis consumer. Why would you put me outside? Why am I in a box? I want to go to the table and gamble and you're restricting it.
So. Marrying up again to that consumer's experience of you want me gambling make it work. So how do you make cannabis work? There is most important. So I think as we think of experiences like that, the more we can create the experience versus you have to drink to be here. We're actually opening up the [00:29:00] pie at the end of the day.
I think at the same example of if you don't want to drink on a Friday night, You don't go out to dinner because you feel like you're going to be forced. Your friends make you drink. And it's like, I don't feel like drinking tonight is a bad decision socially, but we've just lost a consumer. We sent them home.
They're watching Netflix and they're free for tonight. If you could keep them out driving additional sales, I think it's incrementality more than it's a fighting alcohol for wallet share. I think we're getting bigger, better events that we can drive more retail, tainment, more engagement, et cetera. While it's certainly there will be some cannibalization of some of those categories.
I think upside is the bigger opportunity that today we have two separate worlds trying to live apart. When at the center of it, again is one consumer need. I want to go enjoy. And it's how do we create that experience to the best of them? That's most important. And we'll grow that.
Ross O'Brien: DJ. That's great. Thank you. So. I mean, I can only count cards when I'm stoned, so they probably don't, it probably doesn't [00:30:00] meet with the business model anymore, consuming cannabis in but let's talk about, , how this plays a role in our broader cultures and societies, because look, the momentum is there the way that we look past, the pandemic and as we try to look past the pandemic in 2020, there's so much positive.
Legalization regulatory momentum. And we certainly believe that the institutions are far more malleable and looking for ways to, to embrace this. When you look at the consumer and the consumer needs versus experiential, and look, one of the big things that we always talk about is, I don't know any alcohol that has, medicinal benefits, yet, we're looking at, nobody's debating whether or not you can address the symptoms of Parkinson's with, cannabis consumption. So w w where do you see. The big wins. And , where do you see the wind in our sails and the wind in our faces going forward on.
TJ Stouder: Hmm. Big question. And hard to answer. What's call it a. Politically [00:31:00] correct. I think the challenge is twofold. The cat's out of the bag one, so consumers know. The data that's there and more over the hearing from everybody from book club to a family dinners of the successes they've had with these products.
So that's, what's creating the demand that they're going out and trying anything that says cannabis on it because they think they're going to get endless benefits from what almost seems like a snake oil, because everybody says it does everything. So I think the, the regulatory environment not coming yet is.
The biggest question and it's, it's another plant that should be pretty easy to regulate as we know how to create there's enough data to know that it's at least not overly harmful. We have no data to say there's any harm to. Y the slowness, I think is the biggest question, which I beg you to do your own research as a listener.
I'm bothered by the answer because there should be definitely regulations coming faster. [00:32:00] I think good news is cat's out of the bag. Things are moving in the right direction. Certainly since the last election, we've seen a ton of progress, especially on the THC side, on the CBD side. I can't understand any longer.
Wait, the pandemic was certainly an additional holdup, but I think as soon as possible, those regulations need to come. We have seen some positive momentum requesting it from Congress. We haven't seen the regulations and the why is definitely the biggest question. But as I look at my mom's story, there's an answer there that I'll make you find on your own and, or DM me.
I'm happy to tell a more detailed story.
Maggie Kelly: Well, thank you, TJ. One thing we've been asking all of our founders that we speak with and sharing it for the benefit of the entrepreneurs. Listening are those who are aspiring to me. What is the hardest lesson you've had to learn throughout the founder startup process?
TJ Stouder: Hmm. Can I just say raising money as hard? No, that's, that's the easy answer. I want to go [00:33:00] harder than that. I think I got into the.
Everybody probably says that, but just be prepared. It's it's a job as well. No matter where you sit, so be prepared for that. I think the bigger realization is I've always been the type of worker that owns anything.
I do. Through and through, I want to be passionate about it. I want to be the type that wants to answer an email on the weekend. Not has to answer an email on the weekend. So I've always done that, which is what led me to entrepreneurship in the first place. What I would say is that's a huge ask when it's your baby.
There's always the backup. P and G baby, that if you'd missed that email, it's okay. Somebody else will get it. It's Monday when it's yours, you gotta be all in. And I go back to kinda my passion on this business and back to my mom's story, that drives me day to day to the consumer story. This is.
I love it. I love it. I'm excited to be on every social media platform that I wouldn't be on. Otherwise I got a high tails with TJ tonight. If you're listening it probably won't be tonight when this airs but I'm there because I'm excited [00:34:00] to be there. And I think as an entrepreneur, you got to really understand that for yourself.
Cause you're gonna go through some challenges of delivering everything you need to, to keep your baby alive. So certainly prepare yourself for that and, and find friends that are in the same position. We're all battling through. And if it's for the right reason, the world will be better tomorrow.
Ross O'Brien: Well, TJ, I hope all the entrepreneurs listening are, are hearing this because you've done a phenomenal job with the business. And, and look, if it was hard, if it was easy, rather everybody would do it. We've got a tough job too. Backing, founders and entrepreneurs that are going out and building special companies.
And I hope everyone has just got a lot of really great insights from you in the path of entrepreneurship as you continue. So I would encourage everybody to find TJ and listen to what he's got to say. He's got a great story and, and really leading the way.
TJ Stouder: Well, thank you very much. Appreciate the kind words. I certainly have an amazing team and a founding team behind me that helped make it easier. So fully recommend the find friends and stay in your lane and find the people that fill those other lens. And [00:35:00] you will keep the same smile I have. But if you have a, my high on top, certainly my.
Ross O'Brien: Are there any books out there that you would recommend to the entrepreneurs?
Maggie Kelly: Oh boy.
TJ Stouder: Cannabis capital is an excellent read from start to it's on my bookshelf right behind me.
Ross O'Brien: Did I did. I mention, I wrote a book. Oh,
TJ Stouder: I
Ross O'Brien: it is called the
cannabis capital podcast.
TJ Stouder: you have to read the full book before you can listen to this podcast. So all of you have probably read it.
Maggie Kelly: Shameless plug shameless, plug TJ. Thank you so much for joining us today and for playing along with Ross's Ross's game. We appreciate you.
TJ Stouder: Always willing to play a Ross game. Thank you guys so much for having me. It was a great conversation. Look, forward. Dakini is in.