"The MSO's have won is my blunt truth" Compliance, it's the business that everyone in cannabis is in, whether they know it or not. Tyler Beuerlein of Hypur Inc. joins co-hosts Ross O'Brien and Maggie Kelly from Bonaventure Equity to reveal some very blunt truths about the cannabis economy, multi-state operators (MSO's), the limited license market, and what the SAFE Banking Act really means to cannabis operators. Produced by PodConX Cannabis Capital - https://podconx.com/podcasts/cannabis-capital Ross O'Brien - https://podconx.com/guests/ross-obrien Maggie Kelly - https://podconx.com/guests/maggie-kelly Bonaventure Equity - https://www.bvequity.com/ Tyler Beuerlein - https://podconx.com/guests/tyler-beuerlein Hypur - https://www.hypur.com/
"The MSO's have won is my blunt truth"
Compliance, it's the business that everyone in cannabis is in, whether they know it or not. Tyler Beuerlein of Hypur Inc. joins co-hosts Ross O'Brien and Maggie Kelly from Bonaventure Equity to reveal some very blunt truths about the cannabis economy, multi-state operators (MSO's), the limited license market, and what the SAFE Banking Act really means to cannabis operators.
Cannabis Capital - https://podconx.com/podcasts/cannabis-capital
Ross O'Brien - https://podconx.com/guests/ross-obrien
Maggie Kelly - https://podconx.com/guests/maggie-kelly
Bonaventure Equity - https://www.bvequity.com/
Tyler Beuerlein - https://podconx.com/guests/tyler-beuerlein
Hypur - https://www.hypur.com/
BV Tyler B
Maggie Kelly: [00:00:00] All right, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of cannabis, capital, the podcast. I'm your host, Ross Bryan venture, capitalist and author of cannabis, capital the book. And I'm here today as always with my co-host Maggie Kelly Maggie, say hello to the, where we have millions of listeners now.
Or have we reached a billion yet?
Ross O'Brien: And tens of millions rests, tens of millions.
Maggie Kelly: of millions. Fabulous. We'll excited for a really spectacular guests we've got today. And looking forward to the conversation as always Maggie.
Ross O'Brien: Well, Russ, I'm really happy to be with here with you today, listeners. We're glad you're here as well. And we are as always so happy to be bringing you another episode of cannabis capital. The podcast today's guest is the phenomenal Tyler Bauer line of hyper. Rockstar of the cannabis economy, if you will.
But before we get started Ross it's time for the cannabis economy challenge for new listeners. Our challenge is based on our belief that cannabis is not an industry, but [00:01:00] a global macro economy. The impact of legalization is not creating one industry, but multiple dynamic industries in their own. Right.
So Ross, this challenge is interesting. The person who thought of it must have been really out there. And I have to say at first I thought we've been stumped, but after noodling on it for a bit, I realized, Nope, nah, not today. So Ross, are you ready?
Maggie Kelly: Well, I hope I don't get stumped now. Maggie, if you salted already, what am I going to do?
Ross O'Brien: , I know you can talk your way out of anything. So today's challenge is space exploration.
Maggie Kelly: Ooh. Oh, I like it. I like it. Space exploration. All right. Well, I think actually I would start with what is the purpose of space exploration? Right. And a lot of exploration is funded by research. And a lot of the research that they do in space is taking things like plants up into space and studying them.
Guess what cannabis is a plant [00:02:00] and guess what's happening with this plant. It's now being legalized in a way that it's accessible for research. So I would imagine that we are not far off from cannabis, going into space for research purposes.
Ross O'Brien: With this qualify also as or could we make a connection to drones and aerospace, something along those lines as well,
Maggie Kelly: Yeah, in a different way. I mean, I think drones and, and it sounds like this person was definitely out there thinking about being in the stars. I mean, we've seen businesses that have drones that are being used for crop management and in ag tech, right. To go, bruise crops and be able to, cover large, large farming facilities, use them for security and for data and analytics.
So, yeah, I think there's probably technology from aerospace. That's going to be translated into use in cannabis probably early on in the cultivation side. But that's all I've got into my crystal ball today, so I'm going to stop there because I think I escaped dodged a bullet on that one. And we've [00:03:00] got a great interview today, too.
So thanks Maggie.
Ross O'Brien: Okay. And there you have it. Listeners Ross remains undefeated. If you think you can stump Ross, please visit cannabis capital podcast.com. Your submission could be featured on a future episode now onto our interview with Tyler Berline.
Tyler Beuerlein: . Hi, my name is. Tyler Berline. I'm the chief business development officer for hyper. . And my blunt truth is I believe that , the MSLs have one. And it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out.
Ross O'Brien: Well, Tyler, welcome to cannabis capital, the podcast. We're very excited to have you with us today. Ross is especially excited as but before we get started you gave our listeners a little bit of background on you, but can you provide a little bit more background on yourself and about hyper specific.
Tyler Beuerlein: Sure. So again, my name is Tyler Berline. I've been in the industry really since the beginning of Colorado and, and hyper was formed to enable banks and credit unions. The ability to [00:04:00] bank highly regulated industries, not just Canada. So what I think a lot of people miss is the banking problems in this industry are as much a highly regulated industry problem as they are cannabis.
And there are industries outside of cannabis that have had the same, if not greater issues with banking over the years. And so I was very fortunate to be on the front lines was with the first bank and started banking cannabis in the state of Colorado at the beginning. And, and through those relationships, I got to know all the licensees in every state.
And I got to see things from a very unique perspective and
that led into all kinds of relationships. So whether it be with being accredited, new regulators with state and federal governments, as they were formalizing their plans to launch the markets, because, people don't realize that the state governments, depending on how the legislation was written, potentially have issues with banking.
And so, again, just been very fortunate to be on the front lines of it. And now was put on the board of MTV. Which is a really an awesome thing. I'm a bit fortunate to serve, with NCIA is the, the banking and [00:05:00] financial services committee chairman. So, again, just very lucky and, and, been able to see this from a very unique perspective.
Ross O'Brien: So you mentioned your relationships and MJ biz and the conference has just wrapped. And I think I saw on your LinkedIn as you put it, the Superbowl of cannabis. So what are your takeaways from this?
Tyler Beuerlein: The excitement's never been better. And, and, I, I go back to the first years of the conference and I wrote about this, but I remember this clearly the only thing that anybody wanted to talk about was whether or not we're going to get rated by the fed. And people literally had like an exit plan at the convention center, where they, where they had it.
I think it was back at the Rio. Maybe even before that, I forget what the first ones were, but they had an exit plan for where they're going to run. And so it was just kind of amazing to see how far it's come. The caliber of whether it be operators or investors or equipment manufacturers or, all of those companies they've really I would say that the industry has come out of the gray and people realize that this?
[00:06:00] opportunity is here to stay the cat's out of the bag.
This is our generation's prohibition and the excitement's never been greater. So really awesome to see that. And then obviously to, to catch up with everybody. Not having last year a, it was a bummer for everyone. So a great week.
Maggie Kelly: Tyler one of the things that I enjoy talking about with you over the years is both sides of the coin. We're seeing a maturity in the sector, we call it the cannabis economy more than just an industry. We're seeing maturity, we're seeing maturity and founders. What's the inverse, what's the other side of that coin.
What's happening on. Maybe the advocacy side. And are there groups that are being sort of left behind? Is this, as, as this whole sector grows,
Tyler Beuerlein: Yeah. That's so that's a loaded question. Thank you, Ross. But I, I would say it kind of goes back to, and this is not, not to be political in any way, shape or form, but, I remember, and this has come up multiple times with the safe act and people say, well, [00:07:00] why aren't these things passing or. Biden got elected.
Why hasn't this been legalized and what it boils down to? And I hate to say this, but until the industry has enough lobbying power, I don't know that there's one motivation from the MSO is to really, truly go federally legal, whether or not they say that publicly is another story. They've, they've essentially gotten control of the U S market.
And so there are some driving factors to, to push the legalization across the finish line, but it remains to be seen who that really benefits at the end of the day.
Maggie Kelly: , it always felt to me, like , it's sort of a fractured message, right? There's different sort of groups of people with different objectives. So there's no kind of one consolidated, sort of strategy as it relates to whether it's legalization or state or safe banking act, et cetera.
Tyler Beuerlein: That's exactly right. I mean, everybody's got a different take, everybody's got a different draw or motivation. And so unfortunately until the motivations of some of the most powerful people in the country, translate into dollars in [00:08:00] lobbying efforts, I, I, I'm not, I'm not in the camp that thinks that legalization is coming anytime soon, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing either.
Maggie Kelly: Yeah. So let's, let's double click on that. Cause I think that's exactly it, it goes to your blunt truth. Tyler let's let's come back to this in the, in the lens of the context of what's happening and you, you seem very bullish on or. View, rather that the MSOE are really in the driver's seat now.
So for the listeners, let's talk about like, what is an MSL and what's the alternative business model or why, why are they succeeding? And then what do you think that means?
Tyler Beuerlein: Yeah.
So, so MSO is short for multi-state operator. So it just simply means that a, an operator has licenses and, and various states. And what we, what we've seen with the MSLs is they've focused on the limited license markets first and, and by design. And it's a smart move because if you look at certain states, if, if like I'll give an example, and this is not example, and they haven't gone there yet, but this.
The state of [00:09:00] Utah has 14 retail licenses and has eight cultivation licenses. That's it. And you've got a medical market, but chronic pain is approved essentially. so you know, the revenues for those operations are going to be substantial. And so. You've seen the MSOE strategically acquire assets all over the country, and they've got a stranglehold on certain markets.
And, and there is opportunity, I'm not going to say that that there's not opportunity, but I think based on where they're at, based on the money they've raised and based on the way they've executed in the market, it's going to be very, very difficult for anybody to displace them at this point.
In fact, I virtually possible now I think that you're seeing the California market mature, right. And in California, I believe is the fifth largest economy in the world. So you see the, whether it be the glass houses of the world or the Khalifas, they've kind of focused on that market and they will have to be dealt with at some point, I think by those illnesses are required.
But for the most part, I think. [00:10:00] And I've heard this more and more over the last few months operators, especially in established markets that have kept ownership to themselves are now sitting back saying, okay, I've maximized. What I think I can do from a revenue standpoint, I can't displace the MSLs or compete with them longterm.
So it's better for me to sell and ride their stock into the future in their operational prowess and their footprint, because. Eventually, if somebody wants to come in, upon federal legalization or when the capital markets open up, they're going to have to go through the MSS.
Maggie Kelly: And so do you see this then being a catalyst for a really active MNA market?
Tyler Beuerlein: I do. I know of a couple already, but we're going to see some significant moves. I think first quarter of this year.
Maggie Kelly: Awesome. And so on the back of that, then Tyler to go to the flip side of the coin and you've, you've seen this sector from a very unique lens, as you talked about in particular coming through banking. And, and as that was [00:11:00] really the wild west, what are the things that you're seeing now is in.
Knowing what you know now, knowing what we know today, like with the strength of the MSOE, was that something that could have been anticipated was that expected? Is it, sort of, how has this transitioned in reality versus the opportunity that everybody has seen over the past few years?
Tyler Beuerlein: I think it's expected. And, and I think, it's been interesting to me to watch the MSOE because if you look at them, there were two markets that really, really three that I would say fuel to the MSL growth. And if you look at the companies that started in Illinois, So that's where GTI was born.
That's where Cresco was born. If you look at Arizona harvest
Curely took a, a large footprint there early Florida. You've got truly parallel some of those, those giants. So it's interesting. I think they had a significant advantage because their markets launched early. They understood. They understood the opportunity.
They understood the limited license dynamic and they had the promise to go in and either win these licenses or acquire quickly [00:12:00] because there were some of the first to go public as well. So, Yeah. I think it's, it's played out. I think the way that being on the front lines you would anticipated the part that interests me is we saw the Canadian companies.
The Canadian based companies go out and raise an unbelievable amount of money in the capital markets. And they had access, still have access to the U S capital markets. And you know what I see, I see CEOs talk talking. And talking about their game plan and what they're going to do. And the irony to me is if you think about it, there are a couple companies in Canada that have been deemed as the biggest, right.
And their plan is either coming down to the U S to acquire when a federal legalization occurs or export or any number of. Of ideas and justification for their evaluations. But the problem is if federally utilization occurs and they have the ability to come in and acquire, the [00:13:00] MSLs are already too strong in the United States.
And there you have no, no motivation to do a deal with those guys hand overnight. Those us operators, uplifts to the U S exchanges and take away the only advantage that those Canadian companies have had since the beginning and almost overnight, I don't want to say they become irrelevant, but. It's going to be really tough for those guys to compete.
And So you know, when I hear investors talking about opportunity and they talk about those Canadian companies and they, that's where they see the growth occurring. I just don't see it.
Maggie Kelly: So Tyler, we're venture investors. So we're early stage. We don't invest in public companies, but we look at the markets and I would say we echo your sentiment violently or in violent agreement in one respect in particular, which is valuation. And, it seems to us that many of the companies, most of the companies that are publicly traded and even some of the private companies that are in the capital markets right now are already pricing.
A future event and the future value and as venture investors, I mean, we're looking for a significant turn [00:14:00] on our cash investments. If you're already practicing the future upside, then there's no arbitrage to gain that value in something actually happens. Right.
Tyler Beuerlein: Great. Totally great. But I, but I think there's also, I feel, and I've had some conversations even last week with sophisticated investors that I don't think necessarily, truly understand how the U S market works yet. And they're getting there, they're navigating, but I'll give you an example.
The Georgia market just issued six license. And each of those six is going to have five retail locations and a cultivation and that's it in the state of Georgia. And so, I think part of it is it's hard to quantify the value on something like that. For some of the operators that have required truly required.
One of them and I saw their stock get hit pretty hard or the following weeks and, things like that don't necessarily make sense.
Ross O'Brien: Well, if we can transition to things that don't make sense, can you lead us in an, a little discussion here on the safe banking act? It's been in the [00:15:00] news a lot over the past couple of weeks. The house has passed that. I think it's fifth time. What are your thoughts?
Tyler Beuerlein: I think the industry needs to have a realistic expectation of the safe act if it passes. I think it could open up lending. I think it could certainly help banks and credit unions, but the fact remains, and this is wholly missed by the media. This industry is banked. I mean, if you show me an operator right now that doesn't have a bank account transparently.
I'll show you somebody that either doesn't want to pay any fees or is doing something they shouldn't be doing, or they're not licensed altogether. I mean, there's literally, there are banks and credit unions fighting for the business. I get calls every day. Hey, can you send me accounts? Can you introduce me to people?
Can you give me in touch with this person? I mean, it's, the landscape has dramatically changed even over the last 18 months and many of those institutions are aggressively pursuing. And So, my, my fear for the industry is, is that we're putting emphasis on something that really is just [00:16:00] a low impact.
Doesn't really solve much at the end of the day to say that we got to win, which, which is great. And it, it could have some impact, but here's one of the things that, that kind of, again, I think the industry just has a. Out of touch, take on MJ biz did a survey to the industry of what people were most excited about at safe passage in probably 80% of those answers were people saying, Hey, if the safe act passes, we're going to be able to offer credit cards.
Finally it dispensed. Well visa and the branded card networks are very specific about one term is federal legality. So they're not willing to participate in any industry until federal legalities. And I've got a direct statement from one of the major branded networks and I deal with them on a regular basis.
And I can tell you. It kind of goes back to that old Mick Tyson saying like, everybody's got a plan until they get hit in the mouth and everybody's got a plan [00:17:00] until legal and compliance, hit him in the mouth. And unfortunately I don't believe anything's going to change from the branded card rails with safe.
I think it's going to take federal legality for them to come in.
Ross O'Brien: what do you make of Amazon putting their money where their mouth is in terms of lobbying members of Congress? What do you, what do you make of that?
Tyler Beuerlein: I think
Ross O'Brien: cash coming to the table there in the, in
Tyler Beuerlein: Again, I think that goes back to the, be careful what you wish for and whether people really truly want federal legality, despite what they may say publicly. But going back to lobbying power, unfortunately too many times politicians care about money, power, and control, because any one of those three, it gives them more of the other two.
Right. And in this case until they feel like they can. Control or profit off of this industry, or they have lobbying coming at them this powerful enough or throwing enough money at it. Ultimately that's going to be the catalyst for legalization. So I think it's [00:18:00] a slippery slope. I think that if it does go that route, it's going to significantly benefit certain operators and I'll give an example like last house they just acquired 5 million square feet.
Of state-of-the-art cultivation. They understand it inside and out. And so operators that have gone down that path, which I wouldn't recommend for many will thrive in a situation like that, because they're going to need to.
source reliable, cheap product in indoor. I don't think can, can facilitate that.
Maggie Kelly: So I think Amazon's really interesting and. Continued on that path for a moment. Cause I think it leads back to this conversation of advocacy as acumen versus business acumen. Right. And we always say in our shop, we invest in business acumen, not advocacy acumen, but we want to understand, and we know that government can be a market maker.
Our perspective on Amazon is that Amazon has a plan to be an online. And they want to deliver all of your meds to your home and likely are looking at cannabis is no different when there are therapies like more Epidiolex is on the market, [00:19:00] right. They want to be the pathway for getting that into consumers.
Now that is, goes back to what we were talking about, Tyler, right? Like that is one specific agenda that doesn't necessarily coincide or align with everybody's agenda across the space. And I think it's interesting to hear you talk about from the banking perspective. I mean, I remember a couple of years ago when you and I first, probably first met, we were talking about how dispensary's were having to pay a premium to open a bank account.
And now here we are just maybe even, not even two years later, And there, the businesses being banked and, and it's competitive now, and then the complete opposite direction I want to talk a little bit about. So we've got this, opaque landscape from a regulatory standpoint, we have different agendas and different strategies as it relates to lobbying and informing regulations.
And they're not always aligned with, advocacy versus, different business objectives. Let's talk about the people we've seen. And I'd love to hear your take coming out of the conference again, this [00:20:00] year. And I know it's something that you and I have talked extensively about, and I'm trying to bait you again, Tyler, I'm not going to keep giving you softballs.
We're trying to get into,
I got a cutter. That's going to fall off the plate on you. We got to jump in and, and talk about from our standpoint I think we. We have almost celebritized a number of founders and CEOs and people in this space that, that aren't, that aren't even around anymore. Right. Let alone actually kind of still in those seats.
So, the, there was the med men stuff. There's obviously a, a number of different companies where you look at,, could you have known otherwise, like these were operators that were ahead of their skis or, what do you see now happening with some of that dust is settled.
Tyler Beuerlein: So it brings me back to the saying that I'll never forget. And it's, it's, don't confuse brains for a. Right. And I think that so many companies ran out made awful decisions and you candidly, from, from, and again, not, I [00:21:00] I've been in a different seat, so I I've been able to see maybe things that, that most done, but Yeah, Sitting back watching it, it was head-scratcher after head-scratcher and again, even today, I see CEOs of major companies make me statements and I just sit back in my chair like guys, no, none of that's accurate. It's an awful plan. It's never going to work. And, you're saying that sitting behind a desk, that's, it's paying you tens of millions of dollars a year.
I mean, it blows me away. And then, from, from an industry perspective, as Ross and, and speaking about the U S specifically, no two markets are. Right. They're just not, and it's whether it's regulatory regime, licensing model the players, the backstory, and it's it's. I was trying to think for years of how to describe the industry.
And it kind of reminds me of a star wars bar, .
Maggie Kelly: That's why we call it an economy, not an industry, right.
Tyler Beuerlein: yeah, it's real easy to fall [00:22:00] into, to pitfalls. And unfortunately, and it it's it's it also goes back to the point, Ross, where I think I see a lot of these companies targeting CPG execs, they say, oh, well, this person's, been in CPG for 10 years. Perfect fit. Well, You bring those execs in and maybe maybe say having the CPG role and that's great, but it's going to take them 18 to 24 months to really understand the dynamic in this space.
And by that time it's too late. And so again, I sit back and I see these hires and I see these people being brought in and, the hoopla. It blows me away. And it, the thing that, that has been, I think, most frustrating and it's, it's been a benefit for the MSLs that are savvy because they're taking advantage of it.
But the industry doesn't seem to learn from mistakes. They just keep making the same ones over and the bigger the company, the worst they are. , it's going to be interesting to see how that stuff plays out, but yeah, , it's been been quite a ride.
Ross O'Brien: So, what can you tell us Tyler about what you did? The cannabis economy that is working well.
Tyler Beuerlein: , [00:23:00] I think the limited license markets are working well.
It may not be ideal. It may be cumbersome. They're all a little different. I, I still like that model. I think it's safe. I think that I think in those markets, there's So much oversight on the licensees that it prohibits things from really going wrong on a grand scale.
I look at markets like Oklahoma and they, they scare me to death. You've got an unlimited license market. I think they've issued a, a license for every 93 patients, they're on every corner and it's a giant sprint on the bottom. And unfortunately, when. You've got a market like that one.
It's hard to monitor tool when people don't have the ability to really make money steadily and they've got massive competition, they start cutting corners and doing things that, don't benefit anybody. And that stuff scares me. , that may be contrary to what a lot of people say in the industry, , but I do like the limited license markets.
Maggie Kelly: So we're very comfortable with contrarian views. It's very much our DNA in our shop [00:24:00] and how we look at deploying capital. I want to piggyback off of just the perspective that you were sharing on the safe banking act, Tyler, which is let's temper expectations and understand really what it means. Our perspective is it's important and it shows good momentum, but it's not forcing anybody to bank companies.
Right. So, it, it feels largely, almost administrative after the fact to kind of button up how they, how the sector is already operating. And so to the entrepreneurs that are out there that are listening to this, a lot of our audiences looking to raise capital and they're starting their own businesses.
And, and we're super excited about that and want to give them some perspectives. Especially at an early stage, I mean, you don't have enough capital, you don't have enough time and you don't have enough information. What advice would you have for entrepreneurs that are exploring pathways into the cannabis markets?
Now, given the limited information, how should they think about making decisions as it relates to things like safe banking act or ultimate federal legal.
Tyler Beuerlein: I think they've got to find accurate sources of [00:25:00] information, which are not always easy to come by. And I think also, I just, I spoken on ciliary opportunities in companies at MJ biz con. What I've seen successful people do is they either come from an outside industry and they see a gap that they know how to solve.
Right. And even if it is cannabis, and I think, Ross Lipson with Dutchie is a perfect example of that. What he's been able to do or it's somebody that's in the industry and maybe goes down a path and pivots. I see a lot of those companies have a lot of success. And then I also have a lot of respect for people that dive in and they learn the industry before they come up with a plan of how they want to attack it.
I think those three scenarios are probably the ones that typically have success. But yeah, I, it's tough. It's really tough. I'm not going to sit here and say that there's this wealth of information out there because you got to remember the people that are dominating, the industry are having success.
They don't want [00:26:00] to share their special sauce. Right. And so a lot of times they're not forthcoming or they just don't, they don't want to encourage competition. And I hate to say that, but it's reality.
Maggie Kelly: Yeah, it's tough to get behind the competition is good mantra. Everybody says it. We say it and the entrepreneurs say it, but obviously everybody wants to control their own destiny. Right. And that feels a lot like Dominating certain regions dominating certain ownership of licenses, et cetera. As you were talking about, that's kind of playing out on a really large scale.
What are some of the things at an earlier stage or ancillary or less licensed driven? Are you seeing any really exciting innovations out there that were, and it could be maybe around, cause I know you guys are very involved in all the processing of, banking and FinTech that, are you seeing some innovations being developed there as opposed to just adapting incumbent technology from other sectors?
Tyler Beuerlein: I am. I think that there's been a little bit of a race on the payment side, but even then folks that come in on the payment side, [00:27:00] outside of the industry don't ever see. And, and so everybody's kind of trying to create their mode on the payment side and try and figure out a way to conquer it. But I think that a lot of those people believe that safe is the catalyst for mainstream payments to come in.
And again I just don't see that happening at least not anytime soon. So it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. I think there's still a huge opportunity on the lending side. In, in I've seen more and more banks and credit unions come to the table to try and offer aggressive products.
And then I'm seeing some, some folks that have had success in mainstream industry on the lending side, take a really unique approach. And I think we're going to see some products come out in the next three to six months that will really benefit the. Cause as that's been a real challenge.
So, so yeah, those are, those are a couple of areas where I think there's opportunity for sharing. Then I still, I'm a big believer again, there are new markets launching Alabama was launching Georgia, issue, the relationship limited license markets. I think, from a front of investor perspective are really a nice place to be.
Maggie Kelly: [00:28:00] So for those of us, for those listeners out there who may not know enough for, or a lot about hyper, I mean, one of the things I've always admired about your firm and your knowledge and your, your presence is really just long-term focus. And maybe you could just talk a little bit about, like, what are some of the things that you're focused on.
If listeners want to find more information, where do they find you? What sort of resources that are out there? Maybe a good book to read? I don't know, something like that.
Tyler Beuerlein: Cannabis capital,
something
Maggie Kelly: Oh, you mean the one you contributed to and Tyler? Oh,
Ross O'Brien: Tyler you took the.
Tyler Beuerlein: sector limit but that case in point Ross, , the world has changed so dramatically since that time. And it wasn't that long ago, really. So from a hyper standpoint, we're a technology provider for banks and credit in.
And, and that's a very complex beast, right? Compliances it's the business that everybody in cannabis is in whether they realize it or not, but for banks and credit unions, even more so. And so we kind of live in a fishbowl and we knew that [00:29:00] that to solve the payment problem, we had to solve the banking problem first.
And so we've been fortunate to have a lot of success on the compliance side. We had some initial payment products that launched, that have done fairly well. And we're transitioning into a new payment product that we think is going to make a big impact on the space. So I would say long-term, we're a payment company but we had to really lay the foundation to get to where we are.
And I'm thankful for that because, again I would like to think that we've had a pretty big impact on the banking climate, whether people realize that or not behind the.
scenes it, even if it's not things directly Reddit related to what hyper is doing or institutions, I mean, people have to realize that regulators have had to learn just like everybody else.
They've had no guidance. And so. They need actionable information from the industry as well. They need to know what's going on. And so, in some cases we've been kind of a weird intermediary, so to speak in certain situations. So it's, it's been great, and we're just excited for the future.
Maggie Kelly: It's interesting Tyler to look back over the last few years, because there [00:30:00] were certainly other businesses that wanted to tackle the problems that you guys focused on, but you stand alone in the market now as the gold standard, from our perspective anyway, and certainly from, I think the, the, the presence, and I think it's largely been a symptom of what I said earlier is obviously staying focused, but having the foresight to get in front of working with all the different.
Different groups that, that have different incentives at times. And certainly I think what you guys have done to establish the gold standard is, is, is extraordinary. And, and looking forward from here as other states come online, it must be just tremendous opportunity for you guys at hyper.
Tyler Beuerlein: it absolutely is Ross. And, and, to that point, We've also done well by learning the hard way. Right? I mean, again, at the beginning, banks didn't really understand how to bank it. Regulators had no guidance on how to do them in an institution. We, as a technology provider, thought we were providing a solution when really.
In a lot of cases, there were deficiencies. And so, I would say that our business model became [00:31:00] more defendable over the years by going through those hard times. I think it's important for anybody getting into this space to understand that this is not like any other industry you're going to have to pivot most likely. And you're going to, you're going to take some hits and you just have to stay laser focused on the goal and you will get there. Things can be very noisy in.
this industry, more so than most. Everybody knows each other. Everybody's trying to pay attention to what the other one's doing. And so keep the blinders on embrace failure. And, and that failure, in many cases, it's going to make your business model more defendable, longterm.
Ross O'Brien: Well, I think that's pretty good advice to end on today. Tyler many. Thanks for joining. Ross. Thank you as always for leading a great discussion listeners, there was a pretty in-depth conversation today. Details from this interview can be found in the show notes. So if you want to do a little jog on what an MSL is, that sort of thing, please visit the show notes.
And remember, if you [00:32:00] have a cannabis economy challenge, please visit cannabis capital podcast.com and you can find us next Thursday with a new episode of cannabis, capital the podcast.